9 replies to this topic

[Tritty]

Im thinking about the first steps for restoring My HB Torana. Probably wont have the money to do it for some time yet but When I do get the money Id like to know how to start.

I came across this discussion on another forum and would be interested to know if anyone has had any experience with or knowledge of the following methods.

This is copied and pasted from the Fairmont GT forums

Soda Blasting

What is it?

Sodablasting is a coating removal system using Soda Bicarbonate (Baking Soda) as a blast media, delivered with a high CFM of air pressure. Sodablasting is used to remove paint, body filler and undercoating in the automotive restoration industry. Coatings can be removed on numerous substrates such as METAL, FIBERGLASS, WOOD, GLASS and some PLASTICS without damage to the substrate.

Soda Bicarbonate is a natural RUST INHIBITOR, when using it as a blast media it will leave a coating on the metal that will inhibit rust for a long period of time. It is necessary to keep the project stored in a dry area. We have had cars go longer than 6 months without any signs of rust. However, we do recommend that the project get a primer coat on as quickly as possible.

Why should I not use it?

It appears that while it is excellent for cleaning, it is very difficult to paint a surface that has been soda blasted.

Ask your painter or paint supplier if the primer you intend using will cover a panel cleaned by soda blasting?

Lots of reccomendations of soap and water, vinegar and water and other acid type additives to neutralise the soda so it is ready for painting. But who knows what is correct?

It is virtually impossible to fully neutralise any residue especially in cracks and crevices.
Also, because the soda leaves an inactive surface, you have to use some sort of abrasive to activate the metal to give the etch primer a chance of sticking.

"Due to the neutralizing requirements of SODA BLASTING, Southern Polyurethanes does NOT recommend the use of any of their primers over SODA BLASTING"

"Since SPI does not offer neutralizing solutions we strongly prefer that our products NOT be used over a SODA BLASTED substrate. "

Acid Dip

Well from what I have been told the original Ford chassis/bodies were dipped into a zinc bath??? Also acid dipping will remove all this protection in the seams and places you wont be repainting. Result a car that will love to rust in all the hard to get to places.

Do we all agree this is not really an option? I think so!

Paint Stripper

Heard good things, by applying paint stripper then covering the metal in plastic and leaving overnight or out in the sun for 24 hours helps alot. However extremely messy, stinks and stripper eats skin as well as paint so gloves are a must. Looking at a weeks work to do a whole car.

Problems? Paint stripper can seap into the seams and cracks to later emerge once new paint has been applyed. Nasty!!

Sandblasting

All agree can warp and stretch panels due to the abrasive nature and heat caused. You really need someone who knows what they are doing. However this has been done for many years and many swear by the process as long as the person does not apply excessive pressure.

Walnut Blasting

Walnut shell-blasting is very popular because the media is soft, relatively easy to clean up, and is not abrasive after the blasting is completed. If your body has even minimal rust, though, chances are the walnut shell will not remove it.

So won't remove rust and probably not so good for the heavier items on the car and the underside.

Plasitic Bead Blasting

A good application for this abrasive is automotive panels and very light gauge materials that would normally buckle under normal garnet blasting.

With a car panel as an example you can remove one layer of paint at a time, with out any distortion or surface damage to the panel. When a complete car is stripped with Plastic Beads there is no risk of abrasive that can cause damage by being trapped inside sill panels etc, the plastic bead will not retain any moisture as say garnet will.

I have been told this is expensive but looks good on everything else.

I like that it leaves nothing behind that can bite you later on.



OK so looking at that and the general comments on that forum the conclusion was to sandblast the undercarrige, door jams, engine bay and boot, paint strip the surface pannels, and cut out any rust.
My first thoughts were to just send the whole body to a sandblaster but now Im not so sure. what do you all think?

[2LV8ETR]

I would doubt that all of the abovementioned services are available in WA.

Maybe Rob (Heatseeker) could answer this one because it's in his line of work.

If available, I would tend to lean towards soda/walnut blasting.

[Char]

2lt-i can organise to 'acid dip' u if u want, tho id like to get ur kidneys out first

[Heatseeker]

Hi.
I work in the industry (panel and paint)
I have just compeleted a 2 1/2 year rebuild on a 69 fastback mustang, so i have a very good understanding of the many different ways to achive the end result

first off!

DO NOT SODA BLAST ANYTHING!!!!

the soda blasting prosess is much less abrisive than that of sand blasting, and has the same result! but it will not remove any "bog" or major rust areas, its to fine to remove heavy matrials, it will how ever take the paint and undercoats off ect along with surface rust and lose rust.

Why you should not use the soda blasting method

1: its a new method with not alot of ground to stand on
2: dosent remove everything that needs to be removed for the restore process to start
3: you will never get rid of all the soda dust from the car, and the problem with this is that the soda will ontinue to act after the project is finished, soda is a chemical, its like a dry acid, it is rummored that it can eat away after the rebuild is complete, causing probelms down the track.
The reason i say rummored is because it is a new process that is being used and there is not any strong evidince to say if problems will occur with it or not.
It can be waxy, leaving a poor finish on the painted surface or causing trouble when painting and preping.

We had the mustang soda blasted, and there is still soda dust coming out of it....
Presonally not the way i would go.

Acid dip!
costs a fair bit, not something that you can do yourself
if you dont reseal the car proply after and prime right away, rust will set into the freash metal
not the worsed way to start a rebuild, but the whole car must be striped to pieces and primed right away

Sand blasting!
my personal fav
gets rid of everything, if you use the wrong grit of sand you can leave small marks in thr panel
sand blasting with a plastic bead or even the glass beads is the best way to go, but will cost more
This method is by far the best in my opiuon
IT WORKS
sometimes it is best to stick with the devil you know
yes it can alter a panel due its wieght, not so much heat, could be a factor.

what you have to remember is that the type of car you a rebuilding is old, it doesnt matter if the sand blasting alters the panel, as i can garanty that the panels are not very stright anyway, there old, they have had a life time of use, stones hitting them, car park dents, forces of motion from genral driving over 20 years.
they might look stright but when the rebuild starts and blocking gets under way, you will see how different they really are.


If you want my advise
the best way to start a rebuild is to strip the car down, remove the all the interiour, label where everything came from, put coloured cable ties on wiring as it comes out, so you know where it goes back, take as many photos as possable, from all different angels of everything that you remove (brake booster) (dash componts) ect
remove the motor and drive tran, perhaps leave the wheels on if you need to move the car around, take the doors off, take the bonnet and boot off, work from one corner of the car and work your way around the car.

How i would start, i would use a "spot sand blasting technique) if you know that the panel is pretty stright, and there is no rust/bog in it, then you dont have to sand blast it, i would just clean up the area will a sander and some 80 grit, back to bear metal, then hammer up the panel, and use as little as possable filler (bog) put the panel in primmer and move on to the next area.

If the next area has rust or bog that needs to be removed and its bad, use the spot snad blaster on the area, use the 80 grit and sander on the rest, either weld in a patch for the rusted out section or get a new panel for that area, then hammer up the panel, use some filler if you need to and put it in primmer, then move to the next section

Fix the doors and bonnet and boot off the car, try them back on the car, to make sure lines and gaps are good before paint.

there is some many ways of doing a rebuild and there is so many things that ppl miss.
If you have any Q's about what you are doing or what you should do next, or how to do something just ask, if i can help i will!

Just remember
if you sand blast, acid dip or soda blast ect, primmer the whole car right away (after the clean up of matrials of course)
then you will be able to see what needs to be fix or replaced, and where the rust holes are ect

then work on one section at a time, dont leave that section or start another until its done, or you will be jumoing all over the car, and you can miss thing, dents, lines , gaps ect, focus on one area at a time, put it back in primmer once you are done, that way you know that erea is finished ready for the painters

i hope that some of this is helpfull
every build is different
if you need any help please ask, i have all my own gear if you want any work done, i have a mig welder, air compressor and a sand blasting gun, grinders ect
again if you need advise please ask

[2LV8ETR]

There you go Marianne, does that help?

Thanks Rob for the insight, muchly appreciated man.

[Tritty]

Cool, thats helpful. The car is probably half stripped out. So I could, lets say, remove the boot lid and start to sand down and clean that up, then primer it and leave it sitting there for the rest to be done?
How long can I leave it sitting in primer, months or maybe years? so I have an idea of what timeframe I have once I start.
And what is the best sort of primer? I would probably go to protec paints to get what ever is reccommended.
How many coats of primer?
and do I sand the pannel down, then primer, then cut out rust and do all the patch work? or do the patch work and any rust removal before primer? was a little confused on that one.

[Heatseeker]

Cool, thats helpful. The car is probably half stripped out. So I could, lets say, remove the boot lid and start to sand down and clean that up, then primer it and leave it sitting there for the rest to be done?
How long can I leave it sitting in primer, months or maybe years? so I have an idea of what timeframe I have once I start.
And what is the best sort of primer? I would probably go to protec paints to get what ever is reccommended.
How many coats of primer?
and do I sand the pannel down, then primer, then cut out rust and do all the patch work? or do the patch work and any rust removal before primer? was a little confused on that one.

Yes you can start on some thing like the boot lid or bonnet ect, can help to get the project rolling along, but you will need to cover up the boot after the lid is no longer on there so water and dirt and dust dont get in, the cleaner you work the better, it makes the whole job easyer in the long run.
you should be able to leave a panel or a car in primmer for as long as you wont as long as it is shultered from the ellements (if its not in a shed, then buy a good water proff car cover, that can go back on after primmering ect (just dont put the car cover on the car if the panels or other introur are wet, as this will create humidity within the car under the cover and then rust will set in, as moister will be present under the cover and wont dry out proply, so if the car gets wet, let it dry out before covering again

now with the primmering, if you sand blast the whole car you will need to primmer it as soon as possable, that way when you work on one area of the car, you dont have to worry about the rest of the car rusting over again.
then you would work on one area at a time, and reprimmer as you go, after the section is repeared, that way the only part of the car that is exposed is the section you are working on

if the car is still in its old paint and you know that it doesnt need to be completely sand blasted, i would just spot sand blast a small section of rust at a time (or where thre old bog or other damage ect) repair that section and then put it in primmer after you have finished the repair, then move to the next section, the old paint is still going to protect the rest of the car, you just dont want to leave freshly repaired sections out in the ellements.

So basicly if your going to sand blast the whole car you need to primmer all the bear metal after, then work on one section at a time, do whatever repair is required, be it cutting out rust and patching to hammering up to a small amount of filler, then you reprimmer the repaired section and move on to the next one

or work on one seltion at a time, with the spot sand blasting technique, and only primmer up when you have finished a section (not before)

you can use primmer to cheak lines and gaps to, some times at work we will primmer a door line to see how it looks (if its stright or not) ect

If you are just primmering up after the sand blasting prossess, i would only put on 1 or 2 coats of primmer as you will be removing most of the primmer in the repair stage, and then re allpying

if you have finished a repair section and are going to primmer it, i would put on atleast 1 - 2 heavy coats, after you have repaired all sections you may need to rub back all the primmer with 240 grit and 3020 grit and primmer it up for painting

or after you finish a repair section, you can primmer it up as much as you like, 5 - 6 coats, as it will then be ready for the painters to block back and wet rub

you might have to primmer the car 2 times and block it back over and over again to get it stright

you should be able to leave the car in primmer for as long as you wont, just try and avoid getting the primmered parts wet as they can saok up water and this is bad.
If you cant get the car out of the weater and its in primmer i will tell you a secrect, go to super cheap auto, buy a fews can of there cheap matt black paint, dust coat all the primmered areas, the matt black dust coated accross the primmer will help to seal it untill it is ready to be rubed back and painted, it is also a good way to get the primmer all flat as you rub, as it will help to bring up any high and lows in the primmer, black paint will stay in the low spots, if they dont rub out without going back to meeatl you may have to reprimmer that eara

the type of primmer that you use should be the same as the type of paint you are going to use, if you are going to use 2 pac paint, use a 2 pac primmer, if you are going to use acrilyic, then use acrilyic, and use the same brand, this can help stop any "fry ups" in the top coat


i hope i have explained it abit better here for you
There is so much to know and you can only learn by asking Q's and making mastakes
trust me i have made plenty, alot of what im telling you about the blocking back and rubbing is something that you should not worry about at this stage, the better the repair is, the more care that is taken and how the repairs are done will make the painting process much easyer down the track

Take your time and be pataint, its a very long process, if your getting stressed with it, walk away and leave it alone for a day or 2, clear your head and look at a different way of tackling the problem, thats my advise, no point working when your not thinking straight, the result wont be as good as it could be this way

[Heatseeker]

Sorry if some of what i have said doesnt make any sence, it is much easyer to show or talk to some one than it is to expain over the fourms as there is so many different aspects to consider and explain, and theres more than one way of doing the job

[Tritty]

Thanks for the help. I will most likely read that a few times before starting just to get my head around it. If I get stuck Ill probably make use of your services.
thanks again.

[NA_Goodness]

That's an interesting read Rob, thanks for writing it all up! Makes me want to restore a car now though... Lol